Episode #185: Holden Nash and Roberto Smith on Treasure Hunting

Tune in as Holden Nash and Roberto Smith chat with Good Jibes host Ryan Foland about the fascinating and mysterious world of shipwrecks and treasure hunting. Holden and Robert are the co-founders of Boundary RSS, which is revolutionizing Earth’s subsurface data.

Hear about the most famous treasures ever discovered under the sea, how the pair’s pioneering technology works, how shipwrecks are identified, why there’s still so much to learn about the ocean floor, and the top undiscovered treasures off the West Coast.

 Here’s a sample of what you’ll hear in this episode: 

• The surprising spot that has the most density of shipwrecks in the world
• Why the ocean is an untamable mystery
• Holden and Roberto’s favorite wrecks off the west coast
• How Holden and Roberto connected over treasure
• Why insurance ruins the adventure of treasure hunting

Learn more about Holden and Roberto on LinkedIn, at BoundaryRSS.org, and on X @BoundaryRSS, and Ryan at Ryan.Online.

Check out the episode and show notes below for much more detail.

Show Notes

• Holden Nash & Roberto Smith on Treasure Hunting
  • [0:21] Welcome to Good Jibes with Latitude 38
  • [0:50] We have two ‘to-be’ sailors on the show!
  • [1:29] A story about a sailboat that impacted Holden and Roberto?
  • [3:54] How is history perceived today?
  • [4:22] The lightning-struck fleet of ships off the coast of Florida
  • [7:12] How Holden and Roberto connected over treasure
  • [10:10] How insurance ruins the adventure of treasure hunting
  • [11:39] Are you looking to sail more? Add your name to the crew list at Latitude38.com
  • [12:26] What is Boundary RSS?
  • [16:28] Did they expect to find a shipwreck or was it an accident?
  • [18:29] How viable is the subsea system for their business?
  • [20:31] Why are people scanning the sea now?
  • [23:31] Scientists found 7500 new species (completely unknown) recently
  • [24:31] How accurate is the information we have now about the ocean?
  • [26:19] If you’re interested in helping a early-stage started map out the ocean, write in!
  • [29:40] The ocean is an untamable natural disasters
  • [32:09] What will Boundary RSS look like in 10 years?
  • [34:29] Holden and Roberto’s favorite wrecks off the west coast
  • [39:12] Roberto’s tenuous relationship with swimming
  • [41:42] Get your own copy of Latitude 38 at Latitude38.com
  • [43:48] Holden and Roberto move oceans
  • [44:54] Check out their website and connect on with Roberto and Holden
  • [46:14] Make sure to follow Good Jibes with Latitude 38 on your favorite podcast spot and leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts
  • Check out the March 2025 issue of Latitude 38 Sailing Magazine
  • Theme Song: “Pineapple Dream” by Solxis

Transcript:

00:02

It’s wild that we know more about the surface of the moon than we know about the bottom of the ocean.

00:22

Ahoy and welcome to a very special edition of Good Gymes. We are here not on a boat, but we are here with two people who’ve not been on a boat. And how exciting is that? Because we’re gonna be talking about sunken treasure. That’s right, I am here with two very special guests today. Guest number one, Roberto Smith. Guest number two, Holden Nash. And we are gonna talk about how technology is helping us find things that we know are there, but we just can’t find.

00:46

And Good Jives is a podcast brought to you by Latitude 38, where we love to talk about sailing, racing, and today, shipwrecks. You guys ready to get into it? Oh, yeah. Let’s get into it. Couldn’t be more ready.

00:59

Typically our guests have some affiliation with sailing  and you, true to that, do. However, it’s maybe non-traditional. So we’d like to start off with a sailing story that shaped you. Now,  true or false? You’ve been sailing before.  I have not been sailing. So false. False. How about you? True or false? Have you been on a sailboat before? I’m afraid to say it is false. Okay, so we have two to-be sailors. Yeah. But  I heard that sailing indirectly

01:28

Impacts your business your life your motivation what we’re gonna kind of talk about today. So tell me  a story about a sailboat  or Something that has shaped you Yeah, absolutely So for us when we’re thinking about sailboats, we’re thinking about sailboats that are a little bit on the older side from the Spanish days 1715 the Spanish treasure fleet that went through the Gulf Coast of Florida when they were struck by a hurricane That was the first kind of sailboat story that really struck me and got me

01:58

Interested in the world literally was it also struck by lightning as well. It was struck by everything. Okay, they all went down Yeah, but it was a story that really kind of opened up a new world for me in terms of just these huge hulking vessels all the wood it was just such a fascinating aesthetic and it kind of drew me into the legend of Treasure and history in a very unique way do tell well, you know when we were kids It was interesting because we would bond one. This guy’s like the biggest historian

02:26

You ask him a question about it. I used to say in high school I’m like Holden he’s the kind of guy who knows a thing or two about a thing or two.  He’d just go up and he would know something. were you did you study history? did what was history and why was it so important to you? It was a subject that I could really just dive in on. I’m a person who really enjoys research. I love to be immersed in the story  and kind of get that whole broader picture not just you know the math one plus one equals two everything like that you know history there’s so much more there’s so many lines and dots that connect together and it just was really special to me.

02:56

I’ve always found that I go into the rabbit hole and then like once you learn some history that you didn’t know, then you realize there’s history behind that history and there’s more history that might be lost behind that history. So just a technical question, when does history stop or does it stop? History never stops because every single element in our world interacts with one another. You know, there is no  event in history throughout any time that didn’t impact something else, whether it was people conquering other people, whether it was trade interacting with new lands.

03:26

people immigrating to different parts of the world. You know, there’s always something happening that is interacting in a way that will affect a future result. So  history never stops. And that’s true for sailing. And some people love the history of sailing.  And I think that those who are older were part of that history of sailing that’s recent history. And there’s always like this recent and somewhat recent past and then distance.  But what do you like in today’s day and age? I don’t know if everybody’s as excited about history. It might be like fun facts, but

03:56

Are we in an age now where information is so available that like, do you have any thoughts on history and how it’s perceived today? It’s interesting because I think it’s  to a degree, interpretational, right?  I mean, we have so many sources available today. You don’t know what to believe. I think at the crux of it,  none of us were there. So, you know, there could be a million and one recordings, but unless you got the actual piece right in front of you, how do we really know what happens? And that’s what we’re hoping to solve here with  what we’re building.

04:25

Okay, so let’s get back to these ships here. This particular lightning struck ship off the coast of Florida, you said? Yeah, so it was actually whole fleet of ships. There was about 20 of them that were sailing from the Spanish territories in Florida and that area and they were taking gold back to Spain. And what they didn’t realize that they were sailing right into one of the largest hurricanes of the 1700s and it sunk almost the whole fleet, basically. They all went down huge towering walls of water, just crushed them.

04:53

And during the  1980s, there was a big recovery effort where divers were going in and trying to find them and trying to identify them because there was billions of dollars of gold in their halls and not all of them have been found yet.  Were some found? Some have been found. Okay. Yeah, some very famous ships.  I forget the exact name, but there was a very famous diver he spent basically the entire life, like 40 years, just diving all throughout the Florida Keys. And he managed to find a few of them. Other treasure companies have found some, but there’s still a few out there that have not been discovered.

05:21

And how did you discover the story and where did it find you? Is this in one of your history books? So I’m a huge fan of treasure lore. Okay. land-based treasure was where I really got my start. know, Indiana Jones, everything like that was just a huge inspiration. I think that’s every kid’s dream, right? You you watch a movie and the next thing you know, it’s got to come true. Oh, yeah. Indiana But with Indiana Jones, what’s your favorite Indiana Jones got to, Raiders of Lost Ark. Okay. It’s got to be. I have to second him on that. That was a pretty good one. Yeah.

05:50

Although I really like the Uncharted franchise to growing up that was also I don’t know if any of you guys I don’t know. What is this Uncharted? it’s basically a video game that was inspired  by Indiana Jones  and  It’s interesting because they would take real-life urban myths and apply it to each game I have the most read my personal favorite one the fourth one discussed Henry Avery’s lost treasure and  the famed potential myth or may or may not be real

06:19

of the city of Libertalia, which was this haven for pirates  where they wanted to be separated from the rule of law and man and come together unified under this outlaw branch, which when you hear that, that’s kind of paradoxical. I mean, ever since the 18th century,  sailors told tall tales of the city of Libertalia. And that is one of the most famed stories of sailors because Henry Avery, real person, made a way with one of the largest holds.

06:49

in terms of gold and riches. I believe he was the first worldwide manhunt  at the time.  That guy was no joke.  I think you could see how we made our connection. Indeed.  So  you’ve connected with treasure on land that led you to treasure on sea.  And  you were already kind of inspired to find treasure. But within this element of this sailboat and the sea, did you two connect on that? How did that work? And did you tell him about this sailboat?

07:18

Here’s the genesis of this ship between you two. I think it was we both met when we were kids. think we bonded being over little adrenaline junkies. was basically, what was that movie? Point Break. This is like Swayze meets Keanu.  We just started telling each other stories, man. And  we just connected like that. And next thing you know, we’re doing startups. That’s true. Yeah, it spirals very quickly.  So  what came first, the gold or the startup? The gold.

07:47

Okay, gold definitely can cost. And then was the startup in particular to find that said gold or was that a… It was always in view. Yeah, not expressly started for that purpose. You know, that just wasn’t quite the vein that we were trying to travel down. That was really more our own historical antics and just wanting to be adventurers. But the it’s always been in the back of our minds. But, you know, not just treasure. I these are, you know, cultural.

08:12

legacies for so many countries. mean, these galleons and the histories behind them, the Carracks, the galleons, all these ships throughout history that have carried this treasure. mean, there’s huge cultural elements there as well. It’s not just about ingots of gold and coins of silver. You know, there’s so much value that goes beyond. Although depending on who reclaims them, sometimes they will quite literally melt down some of their findings. There was one called the city of Cairo. It sunk in 1942 to a German U-boat.

08:40

And 2013, it  was the deepest dive  known to date and they recovered over 2000 boxes of silver rupees,  the English,  and they melted it down.  So historical value out the window, but 50 million in returns.  It’s a big historical question that’s kind of been on the front of lot of papers lately have been the return of historical objects that were taken during colonial times.

09:10

They’re never going to give it back. It’s not going to happen. But for shipwrecks, it’s unique because it’s in water. You know, it opens up whole new legal challenges. So a lot of difficulty there. That is so frustrating because like  there’s almost shipwrecks and treasure have this unique lure of adventure and almost fantastical element to it. But the moment you actually find something, opens this box of just worms where.

09:37

XYZ company is getting involved. Insurance is getting involved. This country is getting involved. Everybody wants their cut and everybody wants to claim that it’s theirs. But if you look at the crux of it and the history of it, this was stolen from this person. This was stolen from this person. This was stolen from these natives. So whose really is it? You know, is it the people that find it? Is it the company that’s like, we’ve had a claim on it since over 50 years or this country that says it’s historical to us, you know, we stole it from natives. So that’s also a unique facet. Yeah.

10:05

Yeah, because there’s a I think the most famous example of that is definitely the ss-central America Which sank in the Gulf Coast of Mexico from a hurricane as well and they recovered in like 19 and I believe it was 1987 They successfully were able to locate it side scan sonar. They went down They recovered the gold the minute they get back to port they’re expecting, you know a big celebration big media welcome But they’re greeted by you know 20 insurance companies and they got tied up in the courts for I want to say it was almost a decade Wow, and they ended up spending, know, it was like

10:34

10 million dollars to get that was only about 50 million dollars in gold they recovered anyway and it just was it was tragic the bigger the number the more screwed you are there there’s an interesting lost ship the Cinco Chagas I believe and that was in 1594 during the Spanish Anglo war I believe it was between the Portuguese and the English and the Portuguese had wintered down in Mozambique and because they were in poor condition and when they

11:03

came back to the ocean,  they were surprised  and their powder keg blew to the English, which was, that happened a lot back then. There’s so much lost treasure out there just simply due to the fact of powder kegs being blown up. Just boats blowing themselves up. Yep. And the interesting thing about that missing find to this day  is  it equates out to over 20 billion. So.

11:29

Lot of lost treasure out in the ocean. Lot of  jewels, lot of diamonds, lot of gold and silver.  And you two  are finding a way to find it. That’s the hope. That’s the hope and the goal. like this. Yes, together. Hey, good Jives listeners.  Are you looking to sail more? It’s the biggest mismatch on the California coast. There are thousands of boats not sailing because they need crew and thousands more sailors or soon to be sailors who want to sail.

11:59

but can’t find a boat. For over 45 years, Latitude 38 has been connecting boat owners with sailors to sail, or race the bay, or travel far over the horizon. Some connections have turned into thousands of blue water cruising miles, or race winning crews, or long term relationships, or just happy days of sailing. If you have a boat or want a crew, add your name to the Latitude 38 crew list at latitude38.com. You don’t know where such a simple act will take you.

12:28

So now that we are  drawn in with talk of billions and golds and doubloons and all these things, what is it that you guys have developed? What is the company that is a key to possibly unlock some of these mysteries? Absolutely. So Boundary RSS, that’s our startup. And we’ve been developing image processing techniques  using bathymetric survey data. So that’s data collected by NOAA  and other oceanic groups in the United States.

12:58

And we take that data, we run it through a proprietary processing model, and then we’re able to extract certain seabed features, and those include shipwrecks.  And right now we’re looking to expand the functionality of those models to include a more diverse range of surveys, because there’s only a limited amount  of,  it’s called multi-beam survey data, is what we use.  So that’s the highest resolution publicly available data you can get for the seabed. But it is limited.

13:23

in the amount that you can reliably put in. we’re expanding that functionality to include new types of survey data that’s more readily available, like digital sounding data and other types of surveys that we can also run through our model so we can really expand the scope and the scale of where and what we can image. Now we have nine advanced systems, but primarily we’re focusing on three right now. Now everything we’re talking about shipwrecks, this falls under what we call our subsea system,  which half of that primarily has to do with shipwrecks.

13:53

most recent test was off the Oakland Harbor where we found an unknown shipwreck  previously. Now all these  advanced systems are powered by intricate data sets and you know that’s how we do what we do.  Sounds very dynamic.  It’s definitely a pretty versatile model for us especially just because you know oceanic conditions there’s so much variation in terms of water conditions, seabed geology,  and obviously of course the depth of the wreck itself.

14:22

which is the biggest hindering factor when it comes to systems that are trying to do what we’re doing,  is the depth of the model. And that’s one thing we do is spatial resolution enhancement for the bathymetric survey data so we can see deeper, we can identify shipwrecks in a more diverse range of environments as well. Okay, so if we zoom out a little bit and we look at this,  the publicly accessible data that you’re talking about, maybe walk me through that. So you’re saying satellite photos that anybody has access to? Is that a sensor? source, yeah.

14:51

It’s open source and their data that have been collected over years. What NOAA will do a lot of the time is they’ll attach different sensors to commercial vessels  to their own ships. To what? Take photos of what?  The sea? It’s a bathymetric survey. They’re measuring the distance from the surface of the ocean down to the ocean floor. Then they track those differences between them. Then they can map out a profile of the ocean. It’s not exact enough.

15:17

That’s why you have to employ processing techniques like we use in order to extract that valuable information.  And it also doesn’t go that deep, which is another reason we’re expanding into other data sets, not just bathymetric surveys. That’s always going to be the foundation of our model is working with that data just because that data has the most reliable picture and can also image vessels that aren’t just metallic. So when you’re talking about metallic shipwrecks versus wooden shipwrecks, you’re obviously dealing with a huge difference in terms of how you can effectively image them.

15:46

because metallic shipwrecks, can work in magnetic data and electromagnetic data in geoelectric data. But when you’re working in wooden shipwrecks, you really are focused on the bathymetric surveys.  have teams handpicked for each data set, which gives you the most tailored image of what exactly we’re looking for. There are other companies in GIS, and that’s what we’re working with, GIS and geospatial data analytics. What does GIS stand for again?  Geographic information systems. OK. Yes.  There are other…

16:15

companies out there that focus on this, what makes the project we’re working on so interesting and unique is that we have handpicked individuals working on each unique data set to effectively give you the most  clarified image on the market, whether it be subsurface or subsea. me about the test that you had. The question is, did you use it to find  or were you seeking based on what you knew to verify that it was there or a combination of both?

16:41

So it was actually a complete surprise test. We did not expect to find an unidentified shipwreck. surprise. Indeed. But yeah, we did not expect to find an unidentified shipwreck. you were just doing tests off of Oakland. So we were doing what we call validation testing. So we take the database of known shipwrecks that NOAA has,  we run that against our system, and then we’re going to try and match our identified wrecks against theirs. And then we can compare and account for any deviation in the model. But when we saw a wreck in the profile that was not listed by NOAA,

17:08

and we were able to verify almost exactly where these other two wrecks had been positioned, we knew that we had something special there. And I mean, you know, the wreck itself is probably not of great historical significance. You know, it’s in fairly shallow water in a very well-trafficked harbor that’s been around for over 100 years. But at the end of the day, an unidentified wreck is an unidentified wreck. And to us, that meant the world. More or less, this is our proof of concept. And see, that’s the toughest part, is getting people interested. You know, if you tell someone,

17:37

is we found an undiscovered part of the Titanic and everyone wants to go get a piece. When you tell someone it’s an unidentified wreck near the harbor, everyone’s like,  you know, because right now our struggle is trying to find a team who wants to actually, you know, spend some resources and go out there with us so that  we can prove this.  Because really this unidentified wreck, again, is a proof of concept so that we can go out and we can do further scans and find the real cool stuff. That’s true.

18:04

Now of the applications for your business, how big of a piece is this shipwreck system finding part of it? Is this just as a fun and nice media attention and way that it has that practicality to it? Because you said you had nine different elements. So I’m curious to see how much that plays into it and what some of these other things mean in real world business value. would say in reality.

18:29

Although we have nine other advanced systems, a good portion of those advanced systems have to do with subsurface imaging. Subsea though, even though it’s only two systems, it’s not to be taken away from. It is a large portion of what this company, the future of this company. Now we have timelines for each one of these systems. This is a system that the timeline we’ve expressed interest within, we see going years into the future. This is gonna be the foundation.

18:58

this company along with the subsurface. Yeah, but the commercial viability there is a little multifaceted. So when we’re talking about accounting for shipping hazards  and better mapping of oceanic conditions is a huge factor for sailors, for shipping companies, for  government agencies who want to better account and provide information for trade, for recreational use, and just provide that data for people. So there’s a huge value there. In terms of actual like…

19:27

treasure hunting, even more than that, shipwreck identification,  being able to identify shipwrecks, because there’s plenty of people who they want to know where their loved ones were, what happened to them when these ships went down.  And that’s another huge factor for us is being able to, because oceanic surveying is so ridiculously expensive. When you’re talking about chartering a vessel with the technology that can actually perform those To try to go search for something. Exactly. Yeah, and us being able to do that remotely  using this data.

19:53

would be an invaluable use to companies and would save hundreds of thousands of dollars for groups that want to perform this activity. Now when you say remote data, that would mean instead of chartering a boat with all the equipment to go out and do a grid scan,  you would just be on your laptop and you’d have those coordinates and you could see in almost a 3D model of seeing what’s there. This is what we call a disruptor, an industry disruptor. Yeah, definitely a big factor for us is the remoteness. It’s the fact that, you don’t need to spend half a million dollars chartering a

20:23

Specific research vessel you can use that  you can just use our infrastructure to do that remotely are people  using those research vessels now and what what is the why are they trying to scan they’re trying to scan to find treasure or It’s for treasure or just wreck identification. Okay, you know it something thing about GIS  It’s like a rubber band if you do the research on this it’s interesting because we’ve had so many conversations with individuals from this background They get very technically dense on it. I mean we sat in front of the CTO of

20:52

Esri and  he gave this  presentation.  And the thing is, anybody from this background, they start diving into the technicalities of it. And  the average audience gets lost over what the individual is saying, because this is dense stuff. I mean, even for me, I’m not the technical back end on any of this. I’m sales and marketing. My job is to find the narrative in it and put it out there to an audience so that an audience can connect with it within the storytelling. But the interesting thing about this technology is if you do a little bit of digging,

21:21

It is used in such a multifaceted way. It’s like a rubber band. It could be stretched. mean, anywhere from  oil and gas like we’re working on, that’s one portion of the project to see. you say oil and gas, just for example, it’s using this existing data that’s publicly available through satellites and maybe there’s other tracking and  seismic things that people are doing, but there’s data sets  and then correlating that data to make decisions on whether there’s

21:50

oil or whether there’s gas or things like that. Essentially looking through the earth. Yeah. That’s for the subsurface aspect and not to veer off too much, essentially what at least on the oil  hydrocarbon, that’s what it’s called the hydrocarbon system.  Essentially what that does is the seismic survey industry, which  oil and gas utilizes for any survey they’re about to extend to for potential oil wells.  Again, going back to the cardinal three manpower, money and time. And so you got to you got to

22:18

get an actual physical team, they gotta go out there, they gotta do the survey. When intact with this kind of technology, you could just punch it into your laptop and in a matter of seconds, you can find exactly what it is you’re looking for. There’s a lot of value there again, and that’s something that kind of covers across all of our systems is the fact that you can perform the surveys remotely. And that’s a huge factor when it comes to companies who want to really expand the scope of their surveying,  especially smaller companies who we wanna work with first, who don’t always have the resources to perform.

22:46

huge international survey efforts and are trying to compete with bigger companies that are just eating up their market share. But what’s great about the subsurface and for a large part the subsea as well is the fact that there’s not a lot of change. know, a data set collected 10 years ago  doesn’t really have much variation from a data set collected today simply because the subsurface changes in the scope of thousands of years. You know, and the ocean too, which is a huge value to us. wasn’t there a major effort to map out a big

23:14

part of, if not a large section of the ocean or more traveled and that’s where they found some of the deepest parts that they didn’t know exist before. I mean, you look at a GPS and you zoom in pretty well and kind of feels like a little Google Earthish. But how real is that to what we know? I was just reading today that there was a deep sea discovery that unveiled 7000 new species in the ocean’s abyss.

23:38

Scientists found they did a submergible and they found 7,564 species of microorganisms thriving in the crushing depths of the Mariana Trench. With an astounding 89 % of them, the resilient life forms being completely unknown from science till now. So just like again this idea of history’s in the making.

24:03

And we have sailors all the time who are whether they’re just going to Catalina back and forth to meet a whole bunch. They’re going to sail off to Hawaii and whatnot. Right. But let’s just think about and maybe you share like how much do we just have no idea and how much is this like how much will we be able to know? mean, your depth only goes so far. But  if you look at how much this planet is, it’s color blue and  there’s a lot of sailors out there. But 70 percent of the earth’s surface. 70 percent. Yeah.

24:30

I mean how accurate is the stuff that we have now should like that we believe it when stuffs being discovered all the time and you’re talking about ships and gold yeah, but there’s also like The Kraken in Cthulhu. Yeah. Yeah, there’s everything. Yeah, I get James Cameron on the case Yeah, as long as we don’t go in a homemade submergeable down there. We’re good. Yeah. Yeah, I’m good right up here Ocean cake yeah, or that or the Titan yeah, yeah

24:58

So when it comes to the current technology that’s available for oceanic mapping,  really is more, it’s just limited in scope because it has to be ship based, it has to be attached to a ship. That ship can only go in so many places at once. And because the ocean is so vast, hundreds of thousands of  square kilometers of ocean, it’s so difficult. There’s a big push right now to attach more devices to commercial shipping vessels so that we could track more of the ocean more reliably because they’re always circumnavigating the globe.

25:26

We get to collect data so much more readily. there any movement towards,  you know, a few sailors that have decided to go around the world or live that bohemian lifestyle to attach to the bottom of their keel to get some of these other  less traveled? Is that a thing even? I’m not familiar of groups who have done that right now. I know usually these are more government initiatives. Some universities, know Scripps Oceanic Institute, they’re trying to attach more surveying equipment and sonar models to  ships that are going across the Pacific Ocean between here and Asia.

25:57

but it’s still just a small group. that an interesting partnership for you guys to come up with some sort of  something to slap on my keel that gives you this information within harbors, information within local,  and that could be interesting. We’re reaching out to any and everybody right now between universities and then some. So, yeah, we’d love to be a part of that. Well, if you are a latitude nation goer and you want to support early stage startup  in

26:26

technology that’s taking publicly available information, trying to find treasure and map out what we can’t see,  then  who knows?  I’d be some of these. I wonder if there could be maybe there’s a little camera attached to the top and you’re like, hey, we’re going to survey the bottom of the top and then maybe it turns into content somehow and he’s sponsored and then you get these. Yeah, I don’t know. We have a lot of sailors that want to make money out there. And true.  This makes me think of an interesting story, which I was going to say earlier, because you asked us what our connection to sailing.

26:56

I know we both didn’t have a direct one, but interestingly enough in a very inspiring story and kind of in the vein of what you just mentioned, you know, back when I was in middle school, you know, when you’re a kid, you’re wondering where you’re going to go in life. Oh, my God. And you’re overwhelmed with the thought process of it, even though you’re just a little kid. And I remember my seventh grade teacher told me an interesting story about his father’s best friend and his best friend. Excuse me. I forget his name. It’s been years. But Joe, we’ll go with Joe.

27:25

Why not? Joe,  his family  had made a very prominent company and he was set to inherit it. But he was overwhelmed by the thought process of it and wasn’t even sure if he wanted to do that.  so what he did,  what my teacher explained to me, was instead of stepping into this company, he went off to, believe it was somewhere, some harbor in Switzerland. Maybe might not have been Switzerland.  Jozerland.

27:54

Yeah, let’s go with Joe’s or Linda’s tail. Just so we don’t worry about the fact checkers now since it’s obviously… Yeah, cover myself. But he teamed up with the local townspeople to build a sailing boat from hand over the span of months. And when he did, he set sail and he was a crafty lad. And the story goes was that he would pull into local ports

28:21

And that’s how he would make money. would engineer. And he did that for around south of a decade. And felt he was ready. After his life of allure and adventure, he came back to the States and he stepped into the company and he ran it. And I remember hearing that story when I was a kid. was just like, my French, but I was like, holy shit. And I was like, that is a story. I was like, that is something. That is something to shoot for. So again,  not a sailor myself, but I very much connected with that story.

28:50

I guess to answer your question right now, maybe there still are some individuals sailing around the world. There’s tons of them. Oh, yeah. They’re all over the place. all have latitude 38 maybe tattooed on their inner forearm or something. That’s cool. No, there are a lot of adventurous folks that are out there. And I think in a world that seems to be more and more crowded, the ocean is still pretty explored. Yeah. Unexplored. And when I go to Catalina, I tell people it’s the closest furthest place I can get. Yeah. And when, you know,

29:19

depending on where you go on land, there’s just a lot of metropolitan,  although there’s a lot of open land, let’s not be, you drive by all the unpopulated places like  the ocean floor that you cruise by that you just don’t even know. There’s just so much land everywhere. Yeah, no, there is. I mean, that’s what’s so incredible about the ocean, it’s the opportunity. And it’s wild that we know more about the surface of the moon than we know about the bottom of the ocean. There is such a huge frontier of adventure that remains on earth and…

29:48

We’ve gone all over the world, we’ve seen every corner of the globe, but we have not seen every corner of the ocean. Every mound, every trench, every little crevice.  And we definitely want to be a part of the movement that will open up that frontier a little more.  I think it’s interesting. It poses a question of mysteries that I think we can solve some of them. And I say we being just  the future of humanity. But the interesting thing about the ocean is just it is like an untamable natural.

30:18

Like you just you know yeah, I think you can find your way to dance through the storm, but actually being able to tame it I think we can try but I mean I could speak for myself. I’ve almost my History with the ocean which has just been swimming I’ve almost died like three times all right, so  I’m gonna be on the boat. I’m be doing my scans That’s my thing, but yeah, you know that’s  ocean poses a lot of questions. Yeah, I mean not just the ocean to me like the Great Lakes

30:45

I’m a huge Great Lakes fan. I love just learning about all the shipwrecks there. Because I think if I’m not mistaken, it is probably the most dense concentration of shipwrecks in the world.  I don’t think there’s anywhere else because I believe it’s what, 24,000 shipwrecks  have gone down in the Great Lakes.  And I mean, just thousands and thousands of lives. It’s  pretty unbelievable. And we still can’t find all of them. And I know that just yesterday found  a

31:14

another shipwreck out there, the Great Lakes Historical Shipwreck Society. They just discovered another unknown, or a previously unknown wreck that had never been found before from the 1890s. So, Let’s not forget about the Loch Ness Monster too. Indeed. I did go to Loch Ness, I did not see it. You didn’t see him? No. He missed you? Although, a few years ago, a giant oarfish rolled up in two harbors in Catalina, and it was like 25, 30 feet or something like that, just a big

31:44

A big oarfish which made me think about that and just the creatures that are down below that we would never see. Yeah, I mean what is it every other year now there’s we hear about a previously thought to be extinct animal  that just comes up from the depths and they’re like wait a minute this thing was supposed to be gone you know a few thousand years ago and then it pops up on some beach in Australia.  Jurassic world’s gonna be real man we’re gonna see Chris Pratt flying over.

32:09

maybe maybe or something. don’t know. I don’t want to see some of those dinosaurs around there. No thanks. All right. So flash forward. You get all the funding that you need. You’re 10 years down the line. You’re on the boat. You’re surveying.  What does that look like?  What is it that is it just truly finding  gold and shipwrecks that are out there? Like what does that future state look for you look like? And we’ll interview you in 10 years and we’ll see how close that is.

32:32

Yeah, I think that when we’re talking about 10 years down the line, it’s utilizing more sensors, more technologies,  developing our own processing arrays, most likely getting into low orbit satellites, trying to use more advanced… satellites. Yeah. Using more sophisticated magnetometers and other devices we can gather our own native data,  but also just expanding into new ways that we can image the ocean. Working in sensors and hardware is definitely somewhere we want to be  in the future, but I think people have limited themselves.

33:01

because they just don’t understand how valuable this data is, how much is out there and what you can do with it.  And we’re really trying to make that possible.  I mean, it’s a vast sea, pun intended,  of reach, what you can do with this. It cuts across different industries, which is exactly what we’re working on, to be involved within different industries, which let me tell you how hard that is to sell. But I think this started out with the passion  in and of itself of two kids wanting to find treasure.

33:30

And I think it will end with that.  In the meantime, we’ve had to become  very businessman like.  think very businessy. We watched a lot of Mad Men, but at the end,  you we see treasure on the horizon. That’s true. We to put our cowboy hats away for a little bit.  They’re in storage. Basically with what we’re offering, because you’ll hear this guy speak and it is the most technical analysis. swear you need Rosetta Stone to translate it, but.

33:58

What we’re offering is basically Terminator meets Pirates of the Caribbean without any of the nuclear destruction.  Cool Skynet. Skynet is cool. Yeah. Ship Skynet. Let’s call it that. But yeah, I mean, right now we’re talking about our immediate goals coming up in the future. It’s expanding into magnetic data. It’s starting to work  on a more international scale going past California, past the West Coast of the United States.  Although we are very excited because there’s so many interesting wrecks just, I mean, right here.

34:26

right off the coast that have never been identified that have great cultural significance and historical Here off the coast  as in the west coast? Oh yeah, the west coast.  What are a couple? Tease us with a couple that we might want to know and give us the exact coordinates so we can go dive them.  My favorite hands down is definitely the Valencia. The SS Valencia. is, I mean, an absolutely legendary, one of the most legendary ghost ships of all time and it sunk up in British Columbia  near that island over there.

34:54

forget the exact name of the island.  Island. of Joe Islands out there. We’re going  to discover all the Joe Island Islands. But the SS Valenti was a passenger ship coming up from San Francisco.  And they were using dead reckoning for their navigation system way too close to the coast. It crashed.  And it was really tragic. Because most of the women and children were left on the boat. All the men left because they wouldn’t leave because they saw a couple of lifeboats turn over and they would not leave the boat.

35:19

And there were number of other ships that came to help, but they couldn’t get close enough. The water was too shallow. The cliffs were too tall. But  the wreck sank. A lot of people perished. But what was fascinating was about 50 years later, there was a lifeboat that was found floating near where the ship went down. And it was perfectly preserved. And it was  the lifeboat from the SS Valencia. no one’s ever been able to explain how that lifeboat ended up there or where it had been for 50 years.  This guy.

35:49

loves his supernatural stories. I love them too, but I’m a skeptic. If it cannot be explained, I have yet to see anything that cannot be, but I love tales like that. Well, that cannot be explained. Yeah, I guess that’s true. But yeah, so it would be really great to find, because they’ve never been able to pinpoint exactly where the wreckage ended up when it got sucked back into the ocean. And that would be really cool to find for the Valencia. That’s good. That’s a good one. Let’s get two more out of here. feel like there’s two more.

36:18

So there is the,  off the Fallon Islands, off the coast of San Francisco, there was a ship that went down there with a full load of Scotch whiskey  on board, which is a really fascinating. Don’t tell Ireland. Yeah, which is a really fascinating business development because there’s actually a group in the Great Lakes right now who found a freighter that went down with a whole load of now extinct form of buckwheat that is extinct. And what they’re trying to do is they’re trying to pull the buckwheat out.

36:44

They’re trying to extract the genetic profile. They’re trying to merge it with a modern strain, and now they’re going to make booze out of it to create a grain that no one’s been able to taste in about 50 years, which is really cool. Those far-reaching lengths. Yeah, which is awesome. And there was recently, I know there’s another shipwreck off the coast of Scotland that went down, and they managed to recover some intact whiskey bottles. And they sold them for, I want to say it was like $200,000 a bottle, because I mean, it was like 200-year-old whiskey from the bottom of the ocean. You’re not going to get that anywhere else. So that would be a great wreck to find, too.

37:14

Fallen Islands there. can see why in high school when I would introduce this guy, I’d always say he knows a thing or two about a thing or two. Yeah. Yeah. Those would be two awesome shipwrecks to find. The Rio de Janeiro off of San Francisco, also another really tragic wreck that went down because it went down right next to San Francisco. And there was a senator on board who was rushing the captain, even though was way too foggy, should not have approached the Golden Gate Bridge. He was forced to.  And it resulted in the loss about 300 lives  because they

37:43

wouldn’t wait, captain, very respected captain, very great guy, would not have done it. Was forced to do it and there were people, because it used to be the, not the US Coast Guard, used to be the US Life Saving Service,  not the Coast Guard. And there was a station right there and there was a watchman who came out and he just heard people screaming in the night and they couldn’t do anything, it was too foggy, they couldn’t send down any boats and the ship went down like five minutes, it was insane. How long ago was that? That was the early 1800s, or excuse me, late 1800s. Yeah, you know what, man, when you hear all these stories about all these boats.

38:12

That was the only form of travel back then. So that was just, and it was interesting because you hear all these stories how there would be multiple things on vessel, whether it be treasure, whether it be people  going to just want to travel, slaves,  where they would have everything on board all in one, just because  that was the only form of travel. And to actually get from A to B and get on a boat was hard enough. So they would do a one meets all and store everything. And if it went down,  you how that  goes.

38:42

Yeah, and there’s not much reprieve when you’re out there in the middle of the ocean or in the middle of fog somewhere It’s now it for how far technology  is it’s still crazy how wild of a world it is when you’re disconnected with that Yeah, that’s why I always call BS when I’m watching the movies  of like though You know the olden pirates and then  it gets blown to smithereens and that one guy survives on like you know the one log and he makes it to shore or Or there wasn’t even a lot. He swam to shore

39:10

No, it’s crazy.  It’s rare. Definitely the  only place where that ever happens is the Great Lakes. There’ll be one guy who’ll make it out alive.  I mean, yeah,  you’re right. It’s so rare.  mean, especially when you’re talking about like cold water. I mean, the chance of survival in conditions like that. Well, it’s crazy to me because I have a horrible relationship with swimming. But I was lifeguard certified, though.  I  wanted to prove a bet and I won.  you know, kids I grew up with who were on the swim team.

39:39

man, that is the  hardest sport in the world because I came from cross country and I was a good runner and I was like, I this easy, man. And I would just go in there and I just, what’s the usual?  Freestyle? Yeah, yeah. was like, I just didn’t know.  Now you gotta learn the intricacies. They’re like fish, they’re like Aquaman doing it. And I’m like, oh my God, I walk in there and at the time I’m looking like Henry Cavill so everyone’s like, this guy’s gonna win.

40:08

I was dead last, man. These kids are doing laps around me, man. I’m just like, because why? Because they’ve been doing it their whole lives. I remember I asked, I’m like, how long you guys been swimming for? And they’re like, oh, know, ever since I was like five. And I’m like consistently finding that narrative with each person. I’m like, yeah, I’m in trouble, man. Because I’ve been practicing for like a week. So, the ocean is I remember there was one shipwreck, the Daniel J. Morel, that went down in Lake Superior.

40:35

And it was the captain, one of the night watchmen, and one of the stokers that were the last three on the lifeboat. Everyone else, Paris, the boat split in half  during a storm. And then the back half, the stern kept going forward because the engines just kept pushing forward while the front went down. But there were only three of them left on the lifeboat. And the one guy, he jumped in the water and he tried to swim to shore. And they actually managed to pick him up. He was still alive. He didn’t make it out of a helicopter, but he did swim. He almost made it to shore. He was pretty close. But yeah.

41:05

Unforgiving. Unforgiving. don’t want to go too far off course right now, but I can also think of another. A good nautical reference right there. think people are to be like, all right, let’s see where we tack to.  He’s definitely sailed before. But towards an environmental cause, I mean, can think of, you know, with space. You know, when they’re sending rockets out into space, all these pieces are falling off into the ocean to be undiscovered.  I would venture to say that’s probably not too great for the environment.

41:34

I mean, this kind of technology can be utilized towards the same thing, to be fishing these pieces out. True. Keeping a watchful eye towards our greater environment and our home as well. Yeah, deep sea mining too.

41:47

You may be asking, how can I find my own copy of Latitude 38 magazine? Well, it can be as simple as walking into your marina, a Marine store, club, or any California waterfront business. You’ll likely connect with sailors when you walk in the door and you’ll also find many more sailors as you read through the pages of Latitude 38. Bringing home a copy of Latitude 38 is also a great way to redecorate your coffee table and reading one will help you unwind from the distractions of the day.

42:16

it’s almost as good as a day of sailing itself. find a copy of Latitude 38 near you, go to latitude38.com and click on Find the Magazine at the top of the page. Then go out and meet some sailors.

42:31

Now this data is not one big fish finder. Like you can’t figure out where all the whales are at any given point or anything like that, right? You’d have to use a different data set than what we’re using actually. You probably have to move more into the hyperspectral and synthetic aperture radar domain. You can get some very decent penetration these days when you’re talking about some of the more high power sensors that are being deployed. It’s one thing we’re pursuing right now is a partnership with an SAR data provider, satellite company that has their constellation. And we’d love to use their data for things like that, know, ecological goals, different wildlife monitoring.

43:01

We’ve worked with crop monitoring and a better understanding of agricultural yields and other environmental factors and forestry as well.  But we haven’t moved quite into fish yet, although the possibility is always there.  just to build on what Roberto was saying earlier, the possibilities just really are endless. There’s so many little niches and domains that you can modify and push GIS into and make it so much more effective, so much more accurate. When we get more funding, we will find Godzilla.  Oh, perfect. He’s hiding down there too?

43:31

Joe Zilla.  Joe Zilla. Whether he’s in a volcano or in the Marianas Trench, we’ll get him. Yeah, but we’re we’re focusing on a handful right now.  Holden brought up forestry. Yeah. Within that is a wildfire, which something we’ve been working on for a long time as well. that just so happened to pop up here in L.A. All these all these fires happening. And I come from a fire department background, so I got a connection right in there to L.A. FD. But yeah,  I mean, it’s so intricate what you can use. You just need to figure out how to take

44:00

parts of the ocean and just lift them and have them solve the fires at the same time. Exactly. We’re in the wrong business.  Yeah. We have to be in the ocean moving business. What do you do? We move oceans. We move oceans. What do you do? Well, before you move oceans, you got to see what’s below. And it sounds like you guys are on the right track with that. you have been great non-sailing sailors on this podcast.  We’ve learned a lot about lore and ships. And I think  maybe

44:29

Maybe we should do just an entire episode just on like ships and bring in all kinds of  shipwrecks and bring in all kinds of experts and things like that.  Maybe sponsored by your software. Yeah. Hey, who knows? Well, for people who are interested on either putting the  hardware that you haven’t developed on their keels to help you gather data or for people who are just more interested in this in general, whether it be for the ecological or the business side or even the treasure hunting side, the adventure side.

44:56

What is the best way that people can find more information about your company and more information about each of you if they want to reach out? Yeah, check out our website boundaryrss.org.  That’s where you’re find a lot of our information and then we’re also very accessible on LinkedIn. You can check out all of our profiles there. LinkedIn’s our names. So Roberto Smith. Holden Nash. Yeah, find out a lot about us there. Although we’re corporatizing soon, so it’s not gonna be .org.  it’ll be .com soon. But it’s .org.

45:26

You know, check us out on there. We got a lot of information. Find us on Twitter too, or excuse me, X. Yep, at Boundary RSS. Check us out there and always feel free. Reach out. We love to talk. We love to meet new people. It’s always exciting. And do you guys want to get out on a sailboat sometime soon? Oh, yeah, of course. Love the ocean. I get bad luck though, so I don’t want to… Don’t say that. I don’t want the powder keg blowing up the moment I step on it. I was going to say, somebody could reach out and invite you sailing, but maybe just one of you. Yeah,  yeah. I’ll be on an iPad. I’ll be face-timing. Exactly. We’ll zoom in.

45:56

Yeah, that would be fun. All right. Well, thanks guys. This was a fun, insightful conversation. We went a little deep, literally. I know. sea. One might even call it. Yes. All right. Well, thank you all of our listeners. If this is your first time tuning into the Good Jabs podcast, then don’t make it your last. Feel free to subscribe where you get your podcasts. And if you are on social media, you should definitely connect with Latitude 38, the sailing magazine that’s been around since 1977.

46:25

the year of my boat, bingo, is a Cal 34. I don’t know, it all makes sense. believe it or not, you talk about history. You can go back and on latitude38.com in the search bar, you can search for any keyword and it has all of the articles since 1977. So I bet you if we went on there and typed shipwreck, you have a few articles to read. Go back in time, the history is all documented.

46:50

And for those of you who discover treasure or you want to talk about treasure, you can always submit your stories and adventures to latitude 38. They love to share featured stories. Maybe you guys should submit a story about shipwrecks. We just might. You just might. That’d be cool. That’d be awesome. People love to hear this kind of stuff because it’s really a magazine of the people by the people and it’s a community based forever. And sailors, they are the best community because when you’re out there alone, you got to make sure you stick together. Oh, yeah.

47:18

There’s no community better at helping one another than sailors. True. The modern pioneers. I love it. I didn’t even know there were too many people out there  excavating like that.  That’s a little heartwarming. love it. Well, follow ladder238.com and pick up a grubby  one in your hands. It’s actual print magazine. Oh, really? Yeah. Go to  any marine store, any…

47:40

Marina, they’re going to have them for you, Lata238. All right. 238. I’m going to pick up Lata238. You can even get them delivered to your mailbox. Really? Wow. Like for super cheap, they can deliver. And if you like an actual magazine and if you’re into this kind of stuff, we’re sending one to the office mailbox and then we’re going to frame it, man. That’s cool. Yeah. That’s cool. All right. Well, if anybody wants to connect with me and go sailing or talk shop or even be a guest on this Good Jives podcast, you can find me online at Ryan.Online. That’s my website. You can find all my social there.

48:09

My social I usually draw stick figures, sale,  share sailing stories,  recently some wakeboarding stories  and  all things startup as well. So it’s great to have a startup. It’s great to see the technology. It’s great to see us  using data to look deeper into the ocean.  You guys keep up the good work and Latitude 38. We’ll see you next week. Adios everybody. Thank you.