Episode #184: Larry Haynie on Deliveries and Teaching Sailing

Welcome to Good Jibes, where we share stories and tips from the West Coast sailing community on cruising, racing and just plain sailing. This week we chat with boat captain, delivery skipper, sailing instructor, and Bay Area sailor Larry Haynie who shares his stories from over 30 years teaching sailing and delivering boats.

Hear the myths that hold people back from sailing, why racing makes you a better sailor, the most memorable deliveries Larry’s ever done, the most difficult sailing concepts for people to learn, and what sailing instructors can learn from ski instructors.

Here’s a sample of what you’ll hear in this episode: 

• What’s the surprising activity that a lot of women who learn to sail used to do?
• What’s the most challenging part of sailing the North Sea?
• Why did Larry retire from being a sailing instructor?
• What kind of boats did he teach in?
• What can sailing instructors learn from ski instructors?

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and your other favorite podcast spots — follow and leave a 5-star review if you’re feeling the Good Jibes!

Learn more about Larry here: https://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/larry-buys-boat-europe/

Check out the show notes below for much more detail.

Show Notes

• Larry Haynie on Deliveries & Teaching Sailing
  • [0:21] Welcome to Good Jibes with Latitude 38
  • [0:56] Welcome aboard, Larry Haynie!
  • [2:10] What sailing story shaped Larry?
  • [3:33] Where did Larry grow up?
  • [4:31] How did Larry end up in the Bay Area?
  • [4:57] When did Larry start teaching?
  • [6:52] What’s the first boat he bought?
  • [8:20] Did he sail and race?
  • [10:58] When did Larry start teaching?
  • [12:15] Where’s the best place he’s ever gone with a flotilla?
  • [13:00] What was he teaching, ASA or US Sailing?
  • [14:35] What kind of boats does he teach in?
  • [18:10] What are the most difficult things for students to learn?
  • [19:32] Have you seen our classy classifieds? Check out Latitude38.com 
  • Boat Deliveries
  • [20:18] When did Larry start doing deliveries?
  • [20:56] What’s the longest and most fun delivery he’s done?
  • [24:13] Any dangerous or scary deliveries?
  • [25:41] Why has he started this journey in Europe?
  • [26:40] How hard was it to buy a boat in Europe?
  • [29:12] Where was Larry cruising?
  • [31:03] What’s the most challenging part of sailing the North Sea?
  • [33:09] What happens when Larry gets to Brittany, France? 
  • [34:56] How much time does he spend in the Bay Area?
  • [37:32] What’s the most enjoyable part of being a sailing instructor?
  • [38:20] Is there a common element that prompts people to get into sailing?
  • [39:00] If you’d like to be a sponsor, email [email protected]
  • Short Tacks
  • [39:44] What’s Larry’s dream boat?
  • [42:07] Mostly a cruiser or mostly a racer?
  • [43:24] A route Larry wants to sail but hasn’t yet?
  • [44:15] What keeps people away from sailing?
  • [46:30] Larry’s favorite sailing book – What Now Skipper? by Bill Andersen & Chris Beeson
  • [48:35] Larry’s favorite places to sail
  • Make sure to follow Good Jibes with Latitude 38 on your favorite podcast spot and leave us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts
  • Check out the March 2025 issue of Latitude 38 Sailing Magazine
  • Theme Song: “Pineapple Dream” by Solxis

Transcript

Please note: This transcript is not 100% accurate.

00:02

54 foot mast  and  the shadow of the waves is going like halfway up the mast.

00:21

Welcome aboard everyone. This is John Arndt. I’m your host for today’s episode of Good Jibes, a podcast coming from the West Coast, San Francisco Bay area in California about West Coast sailors traveling on the Bay, on the coast and anywhere that are in the world. And this is brought to you each week, released on Tuesdays by Latitude 38, which has been in publication for West Coast sailors since 1977.

00:50

And today’s guest is  a boat captain,  delivery skipper,  sailing instructor, Bay Area sailor, Larry Haynie. Welcome aboard, Larry. Thanks, John. Nice for you to here. Yeah. Great to have you here. I know you’ve got many thousands of sailing miles under your belt,  and you’re a licensed captain, an experienced skipper, a delivery skipper,  and now own a boat with an ML 41 euro.  That’s right. Euro 41.

01:19

Euro 41 that’s in Europe  waiting you for you to return and start cruising for another summer in in the Mediterranean. So that sounds like a good way to enjoy a summer. Yeah, what I’m working on. It’s in the Netherlands right now and I’ve enjoyed the trip from  Lubeck on the Baltic around  the peninsula in Germany to Kiel and down the Kiel Canal. Yeah, out onto the North Sea.

01:48

That was really interesting, the whole section, the whole thing. Yeah. No, looks, uh, so you sent a few pictures. We’ve done a couple of posts on it, which looks great. But  before we get into all, all, uh, some more of your cruising travels, I want to just, uh,  ask you a story that maybe got you started sailing or that impacted you greatly from your many sailing lives. Well, it’s funny. You know, I, I was a power boater when I was a kid, but the idea of sailing had intrigued me for

02:17

you know, since I was like, I don’t know, eight years old or something, there was a program called Adventures in Paradise  TV every week. And I still kind of see myself as the skipper, Adam Troy,  played by Gardner McKay. Oh, great. It was a wonderful show for me. I can still sing the theme song and everything, but I was in powerboating. And then  when I was in

02:42

high school, some friends invited me to go sailing out of San Carlos in Mexico and sail around that part of the Sea of Cortez. And I was like, why have I been doing this all this time? My love was really, you know, sailing. And so as soon as I got in a place where I could, which was actually San Francisco, I started sailing  small boats.  I started sailing El Toro and  whatever they’d let me take out at Lake Merritt.

03:12

Until the days I wanted to go out sailing was when it was windy, you know, and they were like, you know, we’re thinking about closing right now. Like, can I still go out?  But it was really a great place to learn.  then I graduated to  sailing around the Berkeley Marina area. Yeah, great. Where did you grow up before when you were a power boater? Where was that? Texas, close to the Louisiana border. Ah, okay.

03:40

My dad was the oil business and his customers who he was usually close to were  always had a boat of some kind. And that’s where I spent a lot of my childhood was hanging out and fishing, you know, learning all the knuckleheaded things that people,  know, how to get the line wrapped around the prop and all that stuff.  Good way to start. You might as well get, learn, get all the lessons early. Yeah.  They’re easier to solve when you’re young.  How did you get to St. Carlos? We drove.

04:10

Yeah, okay. We had a boat down there and we just drove down and my memory serves me correctly was anchored and  somebody went out to get it and we took it to a dock someplace and then got on and went sailing. So  yeah. And then how’d you end up in the Bay Area?  After Ohio State, I spent a year  graduated from Ohio State with an English major and I spent  summer living on my mom’s farm and teaching school in Texas. And then I bought a motorcycle and

04:39

toured around and  in 1982, I came over Altamont Pass and I’ve been visiting every day since.  Sounds great. Good place if you want to get to sail. Yeah. Yeah. when did you,  did you get your own boat in the bay or did you just start teaching? What’s been your boating? Well,  I have  an uncle of mine that got me into,  you know, that was really my genesis for my interest in sailing.

05:08

And he lived here as a boy and I’ve seen a photograph of him in a like a folk boat or something. Farnished Hall opening day on the Bay 1937 scratched on the bottom of the negative.  Oh great.  He was a member of the Yacht Club. Yeah, that’s where he was a member.  And so I started small selling small boats and he actually encouraged me in some really good ways later on. I know one of the things you asked was  you know my my uncle.

05:38

When I went to buy my first boat, the rest of the family was trying to figure out what minstrel institution to have me committed to.  My uncle told me, says, forget all that crap. Just if you never forget to enjoy having the boat, it’ll be a winning proposition. Whether you’re having cocktail with your friends down at the dock or just working on it. If that’s what you love doing, you know, whatever you love doing on the boat, do it. And whatever the cost and whatever it is, it’ll be worth the trouble. Yeah. Yeah.

06:07

That’s something people forget, know, everything these days, it’s always a financial decision about what you can do. But  what about just the pure pleasure of having something like that or having an activity in a boat? you know, obviously finances got to creep in, but it’s not really a business decision. It’s a life decision. Right. Yeah. And I mean, that thing about the happiest day of a boaters life, you know, the day they buy and the day they sell is hogwash in my opinion. It just…

06:35

If you really just take time to enjoy having the boat that advice of my uncle has been guiding, you know, sort of a guiding light for me and my boating  ownership and all that stuff. So,  what was the first boat you got?  Uh, my Columbia 29, I  bought it from a friend of mine.  You know, when you asked me what were the best boats that I, that I think are the best boats in my opinion, and, uh, that Columbia 29 was pretty awesome. Yeah. Yeah. So.

07:04

I took it offshore. It was just a 29-foot boat. The  original owner brought it up from Costa Mesa with his son, the person I bought the boat from,  in 1965 when they bought it brand new. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah.  Well, that’s when Columbia was knocking boats out in Costa Mesa. Yeah, they were building and selling a lot of boats at that period of time.  Yeah. A lot of great classics from that era.

07:32

That model of the boat that I had was what the Columbia name came from because that was called the Columbia and it was so popular. mean, I was so popular that the company named the company. could because on the  original certificate, it says plastic something or other  name of the company, you know, plastic corporation  like that. Yeah. Plastic production corporation. Anyway, but

08:02

Yeah. Yeah. So they named it after the Columbia 29, the name  of the company. Yeah. Yeah. Like great, great boat.  So then  you sailed and raced the bay or you were a cruiser. And then when did you,  I had some pretty good credentials because part of my training was one of the things I did in small boats was I would go to Cal adventures  and just hang out on the, I might’ve taken a class there because they required it. You know, they require that you take a class before you can

08:31

take the boats out.  Normally, what I did most of the time was go up on  a day, especially the race clinics and stuff. And if they had an extra seat open, if that the only way they could fill that was to put an instructor in there, they just say, Hey, Larry, you know, would you would you mind jumping on this boat? You know, and so I got lots of  really good instruction from there. mean, the best Yeah, so that and then I did a couple of the

09:02

Peter Eisler taught the classes  Oh ASA classes Performance racing clinic yeah Good racing with my buddy Dave. He was just kind of a participant I said you know we got to do better than this so  I Twisted her arm and we took the racing clinics and learned a few other things and stuff But I just never I was always just a very happy. You know Participant I love racing the boat you know

09:30

Sailing was fast and as best we could, but the competition part of it wasn’t. And especially with Dave, because he would just,  he never yelled. We always had a great time.  And it was just fun being on the boat. So that’s what was important. Yeah. That’s the key thing. Well, if you got to do some learning from Peter Eisler, you got to learn from one of the best too.  Yeah. Yeah, man. I mean, the things I learned from him and, you know, carried elsewhere. And I mean, you know, the thing about racing is it makes you a better sailor.  Yeah.

10:01

The more you race, the more you learn about, you know,  to think quickly about who has the right of way, what’s a good move to get away from a tricky situation and so forth. Yeah. And what the heck is why are you pointed this way and going that way? Because the currents  or whatever other  influences. think, yeah, I mean, that’s, you know, I love racing. It’s really, really fun. You know, but I don’t like the yelling and screaming either.

10:25

But I do think  it really refines your sense of how a boat moves and how the bay waters move. And  as you say, relationships to other boats. I think it’s a great way to, you know, if you don’t try and stress about winning  and just stress enjoying, racing is a great way to learn. Yeah.  It really is. Yeah. Great. So did, I mean, it sounds like you were sort of inclined to be a sailing teacher and I guess that was your

10:54

daytime profession as well being a teacher.  Um, but when did you start being a sailing instructor versus just a sailor? Not just the,  uh, started teaching in the late eighties. Wow.  Uh, and that’s about when I,  I got my teacher credential at 1984  and started teaching not too long after that in 1990 is when I got my first crap captain’s license. So that’s when I started teaching on bigger boats. Okay.

11:24

And you were teaching  school also this time at this time regular.  What were you teaching in school? Elementary school. Yeah, yeah, I start my teaching career was two years of high school, one year of middle school and all elementary after that. And  it was just a great companion because I had plenty of time for, you know, the summers  and  I taught at a school where they were on a year round schedule. So I had three weeks off in April and October.

11:52

and it was perfect to get out and go to Mexico or to  the Caribbean and pick up,  know, crews and take people there to, you know, to charter and so forth. Okay. So you were doing flotilla charters with, with like, yeah. Great. So where I have a recommendation, where’s the best place you’ve ever gone with a flotilla charter or chartering in general? It wasn’t easy, but the north end of the, um, wind words.

12:20

Yeah, it’s a parts and the islands around there. The main takeoff point is St. Martin. Right. Well, Northern end is just really beautiful and challenging enough, but not to  and  just some beautiful, incredible places to visit. Well, it’s changed a bit since you probably did your first charter down there, but  but that is a beautiful area. Yeah. Not long after that, there was a incredible hurricane that wiped out St. Bart’s and most of St. Martin. So yeah, yeah.

12:50

Good grief.  then you were teaching  school, but then also teaching sailing. what kind of teaching were you doing? USA, US sailing, or you’ve done both?  The first year I was at Club Nautique, it was ASA.  so we transferred to  US sailing as soon as they launched  the commercial branch of the certification system. And  at that time, it was obvious that

13:20

US sailing was far superior to the ASA. It’s evened up a lot now. I think they’ve learned a lot of things. just the main thing was that the basic time you had to spin on the water with US sailing was longer than you had to for US sailing, and it’s still that way. Yeah. what’s changed over, you’ve been teaching now for 30 years, guess, almost, or taught sailing for about almost 30 years.

13:47

You know, new boats, new sailors or what is there  anything changed over what’s the average student like over that period of time? And I’d say, guess I’m thinking one thing is lots more women learning, I think. That’s right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. remember the first time I did the, uh, the Vallejo race, there were like 500 guys and 25 women. Oh yeah.  I’m joking. I’m exaggerating of course, but

14:17

That’s how it was pretty bad. You yeah, I remember the last time I did it. It was amazing how many women were there. There was actually sailors. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you probably taught a lot of them. Yep.  Yep. And so and what kind of boats  are you teaching? I mean, you learn to sail and dingy. Yeah, there’s always this thing about people that learn in small boats, dingy versus, you know, learning older and a keel boat is tougher. But what?

14:45

What kind of small boats do you teach in and how to how to new sailors maybe that are learning older in life pick up the skills that some of us got to pick up when we were kids and dingy.  Great question because there’s two schools of thought on that one is that a small boat like under 25 feet is the best teacher. Yeah, when you do something wrong, the boat tells you when you do something right, you feel the boat accelerate and you get that feeling of wow, that felt good.

15:14

And in bigger boats, it just takes too long to accelerate or decelerate or whatever when you screw up. And they’re very forgiving in terms of what you can do in winds under 18 knots. So I think most of the clubs are using something in the 22 to 25 foot range, which is perfect. Club Nautique used a Colgate 26, which is a fantastic teaching machine.

15:44

You know they were okay for just fun. You know for fun sailing Yeah, they were good because you had your little office in the back where you could stay out of the way Yeah, you know close your mouth if you could you know?  Not interfere with the learning process yeah, yeah, so it was like a good boat to to To for people to learn on you know plenty of space and all that stuff and and they have this new it’s a I Think it’s by Catalina actually that

16:13

other  clubs. I worked  very briefly with  trade winds  back in the day when it was,  you know, when things were just getting started.  they Valentine was there. That’s right. Yeah. I passed the infamous or famous  single handed sailing test by Kurt Valentine.  So most everybody when they start with a school, they, they start in  a small tiller

16:41

boat and then transition reasonably quickly to a boat with a wheel or how does that transition? It happens a little too fast possibly but yeah and most schools have like a tiller boat for their first first level and and and US sailing for example and then immediately go on to the wheelboat after the first two classes you go to a wheelboat and you never a lot of people never go back so yeah I mean I think

17:08

You know, it is definitely great to get experience on a tiller. You’re probably, if you’re going to be in the sailing world, going to end up with a tiller at some point in your life again anyway.  But obviously in the learning,  as you get started, it’s definitely an interesting mental trans. And, know, I guess that’s the challenge. It’s mental, not intuitive.  You know, when you, when you’re starting and.  And one of the good things about people, and I think it’s pretty important and under appreciated is that people that spend more time on a tiller boat.

17:38

Have an intrinsic knowledge of what’s happening when you move down. Yeah, they even put to wheelboat. They know what the rudder is doing relative to the wheel because they’ve had enough experience. They say if I’m turning, you know, if I’m turning to the right, that tiller that you know, the rudder must be going in the opposite direction in some shape or form. Right. Or you have a sort of a better kind of internal feel of what’s happening. Right, right. Yeah, interesting.

18:08

Yeah, so what’s  maybe challenging me all these years of teaching?  What’s maybe the most difficult thing people struggle to learn?  Let’s see the difficult things for people to learn are.  It can vary a lot because some people just really get hung up on the knots and then there’s two like emphasizes that are kind of.  Knocks the student down for not learning and not or whatever. Yeah, we get in the way. You know, just learning all the other stuff.

18:37

And you always, you know, as a teacher, you look for everybody to find their way into the final prize, which is understanding, you know, everything you’re trying to teach them or as much as they can possibly.  Whatever path they take to that is good,  whether it’s the way you intended for them to get there or not. So, yeah, yeah. Try to be open to stuff.  You know, just one example.

19:03

you know, lot of women who were came into sailing were actually horseback riders, a fair number. Oh, really? No, because I would  ask that if a woman would look kind of like she was, you know, knew a lot about herself, I’d say, are you a horseback rider? And  she said, yes, then I could use things,  analogies and horseback running that fit pretty well. So that’s interesting. Yeah, great.

19:30

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20:00

pick up a magazine at a local marine business or visit our classy classified pages at latitude 38.com to find boats, gear, job opportunities and more.  Then tell us your next sailing story. But, then so teaching and then somewhere in there you started doing deliveries or were deliveries something you were doing right from the beginning  or? Right from the beginning. I started doing deliveries before I started doing anything else and they were always just fun, you know, team efforts, having, having a, you know,

20:31

I’ve negotiated for, hey,  you want us to do that for free? And they’re like, yeah. And I said, well, let us play with the boat for three or four days. I’ve had  two of my  sort of steadfast crew members and I have had some wonderful trips like that, where we negotiated playtime on the boat for, you know. Great. Yeah. What’s your longest delivery  or most fun delivery you’ve done or interesting boat? Well, one of them was,

21:00

My friend, my buddy, my longtime friend, David Edwards, that I raced with on his, as know, 41 many, many times. Yeah. We got a Moody 47 to take down to Oxnard. And I told him, I said, you know, what I really want to do is just sail all the way. Stop at every port we can. We’re not going to, we’re trying to know overnight if we can do it, you know, on the, on the sea, we’ll just.

21:30

trying to make it to a port every day. And we kind of pushed it.  We arrived at  San Simeon a little late, but  we stopped at every port along the way between here,  between San Francisco and Oxnard. And the more we sailed that moody,  the more we liked it. I kind of thought, oh, you know, it’s a big, I don’t know. I didn’t like,  I had negative feelings about it at first, but I came off feeling like,

21:59

This was really a nice boat and Dave and I both felt the same way. Yeah. What is there a harbor you stopped in that’s unusual to stop being since and you know, obviously a lot of people just do that run Monterey Bay to around the corner point conception, but are there 24? Yeah, I mean since in me and that was the first and only time that I ever pulled in there. Yeah, we was wonderful. Yeah, not easy to get in there at night, but we did it and

22:29

You know, I always love pulling into Santa Cruz. Yeah, I’ve gone in there in the winter time and that was not fun at all. had a, you know, those nasty swells coming in there. Yeah, it water and we barely made it in. But yeah, you hope it stretched.  Yeah, right. But you know, no. So yeah, San Simeon was real a real treat. And  I don’t think I’ve ever gone into Morro Bay when it wasn’t totally fogged in. So.

22:56

Yeah, I got to bring my boat up. was was clear as a bell. Unbelievable. I got lucky. I got lucky, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. How about just yeah, is there a longer like a longest delivery you’ve done or what’s the babies out from Tapa Chula, Mexico to Marquesas? Oh, nice. Did you manage to get some Marquesas extra days in the Marquesas? Yes, we did get some extra days in Marquesas and had a wonderful time and we flew to Tahiti the rest of the way.

23:26

And yeah, so during that trip, sort of celestial navigation without the instruments became a lot less mystical. Oh, really? Really understood. Because all you have to do is look up and see the stars on the northern hemisphere. You know exactly where the North Star is all the time. Anytime you can see those stars, you know where the is all the time. You’re like, oh, yeah, we’re going 120 degrees off of due north. Yeah.

23:55

Oh, yeah. Were you doing celestial while you were on that trip or was it or were you the only celestial we did was we should be going that way. Yeah, we can see where West is. Yeah, that was good. Any any dangerous or scary deliveries out there? One of the deliveries back from Hawaii was Dan Newland is a name, you know, right. and yeah, 14. Yeah.

24:22

Linda newlin is his wife and I brought it back with two other folks that weren’t real sailors That was amazing like in terms of the height of the seas.  Oh Yeah, you know one of the days  the 54 foot mast  and  You know the the shadow of the waves was going like halfway up the mast Wow. Yeah, that was pretty incredible. I mean and my buddy

24:51

Watch buddy managed to get one good photo that actually showed like, you know, behind you this towering way. Yeah, but they’re not. It’s not that easy to do.  Yeah, I know. Everybody sends in the pictures of waves and all they were. They never look as big on a picture as they do  and see. I’m sure there’s,  you know, they probably are bigger or look certainly look bigger and pictures never seem to do them justice.  Huh? Well, that’s yeah, that must have been that must have been well.

25:20

Glad that all went as smoothly as possible. Now you’ve gone on a new adventure. You’re off to Europe and you’ve bought this an ML 41, a Euro 41 in Europe. And had you done much sailing in Europe or what prompted this escapade? The main thing was to try to get to the bed. Yeah. That was kind of the main impetus. But, you know, I’m pretty familiar with Brittany and that was actually a big part of the

25:49

Thing was to get to Brittany and be able to spend some time sailing around there I hadn’t counted on buying and I think if I had it all to do over again I wouldn’t buy a boat in Germany and try it around Why Germany versus anywhere else in you? Oh just because I found the right boat there Yeah, no under boat. You know they kept it in really good shape except for the motor. You know yeah other than that Everything was wonderful. You know yeah, but I’m pretty familiar with Brittany. I’ve sailed around there some

26:21

between Marseille and the Ile-Dièvre. I know that area pretty well, know, in the Mediterranean and just a little bit on the, you know, west from there, but not very much, just a day charter, you know. How hard was it to buy a boat in Europe? mean, was any sort of hurdles for anybody else thinking about the same kind of thing? Or are there better deals over there or what’s…

26:47

The problem buying it in northern Europe is that there’s no such thing as a boat title.  If the boat’s less than 15 meters in length, the government doesn’t want to hear about it.  You could buy a 50-year-old boat and it’s never had a title on it. And when you come to the United States and try to register, they’re like, start acting like you’re some kind of fool or something. You know, like, what?  Get out of here. Go find somebody else to tell that story to.

27:15

So I had to hire somebody to help me do that and it wasn’t a cheap, but  that was one of the drawbacks.  So you have to  have a U S document created in the U S and there’s no other  document to show them to,  you know, one of my best,  uh, kind of a sailing mentor. We’re the same age, but I learned so much from him in the early, you know, the mid eighties when we were sailing together around San Francisco, he’s from Hamburg, really good sailor.

27:45

Couldn’t let him be half member or 51 % membership Yeah, he could have registered the boat and done everything else and I think if I had it all to do over again That’s what I would have done. Yeah. Yeah, so yeah instead of trying to register myself and so forth because they’re easy You don’t have to the only paperwork or proof that you have to that you own the boat is the bill of sale That’s me Wow, that’s interesting. I always think of it as my

28:14

more regulated in some ways over there, but that’s a pretty light touch on it all.  that’s good. So what, did you have to replace the engine? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s right. remember that. The best places there. I mean, I was luck, but  there’s a place near Lubeck that everybody said they’re like the best in Northern Germany. And they turned out to be just that. And they did a wonderful job. They had a great attitude.

28:42

This mechanic seems kind of dour sour puss and and first thing he looked at the motor It says maybe we can plug all those holes with Seca  Great guy with a great sense of humor. Yeah, I didn’t smile very much so but he made you smile. Yeah  So  once you so you cruised last summer was your first summer cruising the boat and you’re just

29:11

kept in the Baltic or North Sea or where were you cruising? Started in the Baltic, sailed around to the Kiel Canal, went out through the Kiel Canal to the North Sea, and then Kora jumped ship there.  And  I didn’t really want her to be there when I was doing the North Sea. And I didn’t find anybody and the time was right. So I just took off on my own from Cuxhaven, which is the southern end  at the mouth of the Elbe, where you go out onto the North Sea. Yeah.

29:41

parted there and went to the first island, which was Wangarug, and it turned out to be the best. Like, it was kind of crude and they had a really crude, you know, like simple  yacht club, but the people there were amazing, just  very well informed.  They told me everything I needed to know to do the rest of my trip and  were just really a great wealth of knowledge and you know.

30:09

Hospitality and everything so and this is I don’t know that area really at all I know the elbow course is where? Wonder bird is now getting ready to start sailing again, but I think of it Earth can child There’s book riddle of the sands is that I think that’s from that area of the North Sea That was a book that’s people recommended what I ended what I started reading was a book about the North Sea it’s case my

30:39

Michael Bay, think is his name is the author’s name.  It was about the effect that well, the North Sea did for commerce and  everything started at the time of Charlemagne going  up to like the late 1800s. Wow. Wow. So yeah, there’s a lot of history there. Well, what was weather like or currents like? Is it a lot of tidal flow there or is it I mean, what’s the most challenging thing about sailing the North Sea?

31:08

It’s not as bad as Brittany, for example. Yeah, pretty bad. Yeah, it was difficult because all the harbors are on the inside of the Wadden Sea. So you go, you leave a harbor, you go around the outside, you have to go all the way around the island and back on the inside of the Wadden Sea. So you’re fighting it. You you can, you can go out with the current maybe, but you’re probably not going to be able to have a fair time when you go back in unless you do an overnight passage, which

31:37

I didn’t have the luxury of doing so, but I managed it and it was, you know, some of the sailing was very challenging and, uh, you know, but a lot of it wasn’t, it was really nice sailing and, uh, And a lot of ship traffic. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Great. And so you’re going to go back this year. What’s, uh, what’s the plan for the next  phase of this trip? I mean, have you had the boat hauled out for the winter or, or do you leave it on water?

32:04

You’re with the two winters in the it’s before that it’s been every winter out of the water and the last two it’s been in the water and No negative effects on that regard. I’m gonna take it out of the water probably have it Inspected and then painted Yeah, that’s the game plan. Yeah, and it doesn’t doesn’t ice up there as far as in the winter No, no, it doesn’t and it

32:34

That historically it has but but  climate change It almost never does anymore. So there was very little danger of that while I was there Yeah, interesting. I keep hearing this, you know, people are like tourists are also species are moving north towards their  climates and so are tourists because  Mastroian and lots of places are getting hotter  and so people are touristing more in Norway and Sweden and south of France maybe but but

33:02

But you’re going to head south or what’s your plan? What’s the plan? Yeah. And you’ll go to Brittany? Where do you go in Brittany when you’re? That’s I’d really like to get to Brittany. And whether I make it to the man or not, I may end up just spending the end of my sailing career chartering there or something. But we’ll see. Because what I found out the time last summer was that it’s very expensive there and crowded. Yeah.

33:28

Yeah, and actually if you’re cruising and sailing Europe or chartering Europe, I guess you have to get a European sailing license or what? What’s what’s that? The CCS that you gotta get? Because you’ve maybe taught people to.  I left my backpack in the other room, but I have my certificate of competence,  right? CCI or something like that. Anyway, I have it. Yeah, with your license captain, they just kind of grab and follow you in. OK, you had a license.

33:57

All I needed to show them was my certificates from US Sailing and my capitals license and they just  gave me the.  Oh, OK. Yeah, well, you’ve been a teacher. But if if I were go do I guessing my California voters card is not going to get me. have some classwork or something behind that. Yeah. Yeah. So  and is that because I did know a lot of people do want to go charter in Europe and Mediterranean. And to get that, they need.

34:25

Can get that from Club Nauteek or other sailing schools or how do you get that? US Sailing is one of the venues that you get it through. I’m not sure whether you can,  probably you can get it through ASA. Yeah. But definitely I went through US Sailing and it was very easy for me. Yeah, okay. Well, if you’ve been teaching sailing for 30 years, that’s probably  easier than it is for most of us to get that. Probably. Yeah, good.

34:51

Do you do any sailing when you get how much time are you spending in the Bay Area these days and do any sailing around here? Let’s see about. Less than half time here. Yeah, less than half time like four to six, four to four or five months here. Yeah, yeah, and the rest time in Europe. beautiful Thanksgiving, the holidays and you’ve retired from teaching sailing and it seems to me that most of the sailing schools are always.

35:19

looking for new sailing instructors to teach students.  so maybe you could give a little like, what’s so great about it being able to be able to teach sailing so that the sailing schools can, we can inspire some people to go apply. Cause it does seem like there always seems to be a shortage of sailing instructors. Yeah. Yeah.  And because it really requires a day job.  Isn’t good enough where you can  get a living wage for  instructor. One of the questions you forwarded to me was,

35:49

What advice do you give to people who are learning how to sail? And there’s a phrase I have used so many times. Yeah. I said, it may seem like a lot of expense, time and trouble to go to a sailing school and really learn how to sail, but it’ll significantly reduce your chances of winding up in the sighting section of latitude 38.  Bad reason.  Yeah.  Yeah. must have said that phrase at least a hundred times.

36:17

Yeah, yeah. Well, that’s it. There’s a, you know, it’s also a good reason to start out maybe with a good and inexpensive used boat. Uh, you know, get your bumps and bangs and something small unless you know, of the most amazing couples that came through, uh, Clementi, they bought a boat, bow bow bow and 19. They went through the first two levels. They bought a bow bow and 19. They made every mistake you can imagine for two years, you know,

36:46

but they kept at it. were there so many weekends. saw them out there on their boats. Right. Boat was a 44 foot something or other, maybe a Nordic 44, I think was their next boat and their next boat. But they had it down by then. They had really learned how to sail, how to keep out of trouble. And they did a great job on that. I was really amazed. They must have been sailing somebody with somebody else on bigger boats or something, because to make that big of a jump. Yeah.

37:16

It’s challenging, but I never saw them like get themselves into trouble after those two years on that battle point. Yeah, that’s a great way to go. Well, yeah, Nordic 44. That’s a big and beautiful boat. Yeah, good, good, good step. Yeah. What’s so what’s been just fun about being a sailing instructor? You know, all the people you meet, you know, all of my students, you know, especially the elementary ones, I at the end of the year, I’m telling my hope you’ve learned as much from me as I’ve learned from you, you know.

37:44

And I think just seeing people struggle and get through things and, you know, their personal resilience and that kind of stuff has always been an inspiration for me. that’s one of the things I love most about being school instructor. yeah. See the light bulb come on. Yeah. That’s really a wonderful thing to see, you know. Yeah. See that moment. Yeah. Well, you know, we’re always talking about how

38:09

Many people in the Bay Area maybe don’t know there’s a Bay in the middle of the Bay Area or don’t know how to access sailing. But those people who discover it, is there a common like motivator that when you all those students you’ve been to say, you know, why did they suddenly decide to learn to sail? Like, is there one thing that sort of stands out or the variety? I think it’s that’s kind of all over the map. I think one thing that comes up from,  know, that my family had a boat when we were younger or we knew somebody that had a boat.

38:38

And it looked like they had so much fun with it. And, I went sailing with, you know, family, friends, and we had a wonderful time. That seems to be a thing that comes up a lot. they had a distant memory and then a big gap. And then they decide a time is right to come back and check it out in earnest. Hey, listen up. We hope everyone is enjoying listening to the stories of West Coast sailors on our Good Jives podcast.  We’ve heard lots of great feedback from the 150,000 listeners.

39:07

who’ve tuned in over the last couple of years. And if you have a marine business,  we’d like to give you an opportunity to connect with them during upcoming podcasts.  If you’d like to be a sponsor of future podcasts,  you can email Nikki,  N-I-C-K-I,  Nikki at latitude38.com  to learn more about how your company can benefit from sponsoring good gybes.

39:31

Let’s see, maybe one just switch switch tax here to some short tack questions and ask you. Yeah, is there maybe a favorite sailboat make model it a dream boat if you’ve ever sort of had the ultimate dream boat or maybe you own it now or what’s the problem? Well, the on the 41 was it’s well, the problem for me is that it’s too slow, too slow. I still love it. It’s really a great boat for somebody who wants to cruise the world. If they want you want to do international cruising man.

40:00

Get yourself an on-mail 41. It’s really incredible. Yeah, my favorite boats J 120. Oh, yeah, they’re just something magic about the way they sound when you’re sailing them and how they feel and and freers 41  My buddy Dave and I brought one back from Hawaii  once. Yeah,  I just thought this is incredible this boat the way this boat sails and the way it handles rough seas and everything and a friend of mine so I helped him

40:29

You know I he There’s a friend of mine and really close friend. He lets me use his boat anytime I want  He has Ericsson 35 that he he bought from City Yachts that happened to have been owned by Chrissy Kaplan. Oh nice. Yeah, and  And this boat is like amazing for me It just the way it sails and it has that kind of feel when you’re the way it tracks. Yeah, we’ve used we’ve flown it

40:58

Spinnaker on it and it tracks so well with the spinnaker most of the time when you get a puff the boat heels over and accelerates Yeah, just like the j120 and the freers 41 had that same quality to them They’re like they’re very different than the boats today, but there’s a lot of classic great boats from the 70s 80s period Ericsson 35 or the you know, Islander 36 and

41:26

and so many boats that are still sailing today that are. Yeah, I mean, all  the Beneteau models like Beneteau did a wonderful job of. Walking that line between quality of build convenience and you know for sailing and being an anchor and sailing qualities. mean, you know you can say what you want about them, but they did a great job of kind of balancing those three as a production boat. Yeah, you know I had.

41:55

when I was working for the dealership here in the Bay Area for four years, three years,  had a great time, you know, like sailing all those Beneteau’s around. Fantastic. Yeah, great.  And now that you’re, mean, now you’re mostly cruiser, but yeah, cruiser racer. Would you consider yourself still a racer or mostly cruiser? Just a cruiser for sure. I mean, and mainly just because of lack of opportunity. Yeah. I really enjoyed it.  Does the name Charlie Arms mean anything to you? Oh yeah.

42:24

Yeah, she was a Cal Maritime. That’s right. Yeah. So I took over for her for one summer and I remember that  and the her and the whole racing team were gone. So I didn’t have a prayer of being, you know, but when I would tell people, you know, I took over, I was running the program during the summer. They’d say, well, are you a racing coach or something? I’m like, hell no. I, you know, I’ve, had some pretty good credentials, but I could never qualify as a, as a racing coach. This didn’t have enough experience.

42:51

But I really did enjoy and still do enjoy like beer can racing. uh, you know, one of the things I learned so much from on the midwinners was watching the stern of Yucca.  Wait, Adam, with a pair of binoculars.  We’ve all spent a lot of time watching this turn of luck, Yucca and learning. That’s a, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

43:17

Enjoy good. I still passing around. Easton Bowie off a yellow bluff there off the marine.  Yeah,  so how about favorite place you have sailed? is there a place you’ve never sailed that you’ve always wanted to?  One of the things one of the routes I’ve thought about doing is going from Hawaii to Japan. Ooh,  just going  along that shore between hopping around, not out to the Philippines maybe, but down to the Solomon Islands and down to Australia that way. Yeah, one.

43:45

I think I should try to do either hitch a ride or do something or take my boat down there and sell it, you know Yeah, but the other is between Between the Greek Isles and and Istanbul. Oh, yeah, that’s something I want to do Yeah And some you might take your boat over there to do that. Well, that was the original plan. Well, we’ll see if I make it or not But yeah, what keeps people away from sale?

44:14

The misperception of the expense. Yeah is number one because I mean there’s so many ways to sail You know joining a small sailing club Paul K. Art and  Mark Morgan Larson learned on Lake Merritt. Did you know that? Yeah. Yeah, I think I think polka was on Lake Merced  In the same way, I believe but either either one. Yeah small I know he learned on small Area right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah and

44:43

You know, it doesn’t take much,  you know, group ownership. There’s lots of routes into sailing, just getting attached to a company like Wonderful Places Tradewinds. You know, they do such a wonderful job of making a family out of it, know, and, you know, inexpensive. I like to remind people there’s far more sailors than there are boats because, you know, most boats have multiple crew. And so  actually most people who sail sail for free. They’re not owners.

45:14

Yeah. And I think we could do a better job with the instruction thing. Yeah. It can make it. Yeah. Have you ever taken a ski lesson? Actually not, but I am not,  but. Taking a lot of ski lessons because I’m so bad at it. Yeah. I’ve never had a bad  ski lesson.  And I think there’s something that the ski instruction world does, the  US skiing or whatever it is that US sailing and ASA could learn from. Huh. Interesting.

45:43

you know, just figure out what they do there, you know, how the instructors are required to ski with another instructor a certain number of hours every year.  Things like that that we might be able to learn from. But the main thing I think is just people have this perception that it’s has you have to have a huge disposable income in order to make it happen. Yeah.

46:06

Well, I said we did a podcast recently with Cal Sailing Club in Berkeley, you know, where you can join for three months for 120 bucks and sail for 90 days straight. I think, you know, it’s a community program, you know, have access to boats for less than a monthly gym membership. and, uh, so there are, yeah, there are definitely lots of inexpensive ways where you can go crew or. All right. Let’s see. Last question here is just a favorite sailing theme booked or booked at two reactor bear.

46:35

What were a book that inspired you as a kid maybe here? I remember one thing it was called a sailing primer That was pretty good that I read when I first started sailing But I do have an all-time favorite book and I’m not much on the fiction, you know Because we get so much fiction. We’re hanging out at the bar  Yeah, but the book that I really I’ve bought a copy for everybody I’ve signed off  on for coastal cruising certificate Yeah, and that’s  by Tom Conliffe and his friends called

47:05

What Now Skipper? Huh, I don’t know that one. And that’s a novel. No,  it’s a group of fiendish tales  on lessons  from sailing. And  what it is is that you have all these scenarios where things go bad. And what you learn after the first few several  is that Tom Conliffe and his buddies were the knuckleheads who got themselves into trouble.

47:33

What they would do is they would talk about a scenario where things went south and then the other two authors would say, okay, well, this what I would have done if I was there. And then the other  author would say, well, that’s pretty good, but I would have done this. And then the guy who, like Tom Conniliffe would come in and say, well, was actually me that was the skipper on that boat. this is how it got out of that situation. And it’s full of those and there’s…

48:01

some on navigation and anchoring and all kinds of stuff.  I have to look that one up. haven’t seen that one. that sounds like your copy. I’ll send you a copy. Oh, that sounds great.  You can always learn more in sailing. That’s for sure. Yeah. It’s really a fun book to read too. You know what a great attitude Tom Conloff has in all his videos and stuff. Yeah.

48:32

That’s fun. good. Well, so before we sign off, any other thoughts or questions I should have asked or things you want to share with our listeners readers? Well, let’s see. I don’t think so. I mean, I thought the questions you wrote out were really great. just that everything was, you know, pretty right on there, you know, in terms of just important things to know. You know, you asked me what my favorite sailing areas were.

48:57

And two places that stand out for me. Oh, maybe you did ask that question. See, that’s what you get when you’re  Full of surprises.  The San Juan Islands.  And a fair amount of time up there and  racing with the Orcas Yacht Club group, like just going down to the docks and hopping on a boat is really a kick in the pants. You know, it’s slow, but they’re real competitive and there’s some great sailors in there.

49:26

and just learn a lot just from going out there and help with those guys. Yeah, that’s a beautiful area. We just did a podcast with Ron Rosenberg, who has  the J-70 fleet up there on Orcas Island. And they’ve got they’ve really built up a huge fleet since the pandemic.  Yeah, it’s a beautiful area, of course. And but it sounds like, yes, a good northern latitude sailing is in your blood. The North Sea and the Orcas Islands and ones not that that’s it’s not all palm trees.  Yeah.  So.

49:54

Well, great. know, really, yeah, no, do appreciate your spending time with us here. And thank you too for teaching all the sailors you’ve taught through all these years on the bay, because I’m sure there’s lots of people enjoying sailing now that have had your lessons. Thanks. Yeah, it’s been a great pleasure. And I’ve always felt like it’s been a real gift. And when Don and Judy Durant sold Clématique and kind of broke, split apart, I wrote them a letter saying,

50:22

We may have been a dysfunctional family at times, but we were a family. And I learned so much from all the people there at Club Nautique. So many of my sailing hours, you know, were spent teaching people how to sail there. was such a wonderful ride. So, yeah. Good for you. No, that’s great. So really appreciate that. So great. Well, Larry, thank you so much. And yeah, thanks for your time here. Good to see you. And also, of course, good luck.

50:51

and your summer cruises.  Thanks.